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Jun. 6th, 2021 09:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
iniquiticitythis was the beginning of some discourse post on shadowgast which i lost steam halfway through
here are some unequivocal statements i would like to make.
1. sometimes the creators of some canon will tweet something about the canon in a more explicit form than what appears in the text.
2. everyone BRINGS something different to the source canon. depending on that, everyone takes something different out of it. you get to change your mind on what you take out of the canon at any time. like me for example.
3. everyone WANTS something from the source canon, and that can tinge your perception of the source canon. "shipper goggles."
3. no one is wrong re: 2). even if the thing you took from the canon does not match 1) you are still not wrong. it's a work of fiction and you get to read it, interrogate it, and leave with whatever you got. the text is so much more important than 1).
4. does it feel GOOD to be verified by 1)? oh, heck yes. does this mean people verified by 1) are somehow "better" or "right" or "more valuable" than people rejected by 1)? No.
5. Do you get to use the absence of 1) to push some shitty agenda? fucking definitely not.
6. i should also state that it was EXTREMELY obvious to me that matt and liam's epilogue for essek and caleb was romantic. what i took from their canon discussion of it (see 2) was no way these two were not deeply connected and romantically engaged. i was BAFFLED that people were not taking romance from that epilogue.
now let's get down to discourse brass tacks.
because of 6), i was stunned that there was disappointment or that people weren't happy with this ending. i was staring at tweets in bafflement. i had NO idea why people were disappointed? they thought THIS wasn't shadowgast canon?
someone did tell me "shitty anti-gay people were being like THEY'RE NOT GAY and you're a f---" or whatever, which falls under 5). Fuck you guys. if what needs to be done to tell those people to fuck right the fuck off is add in 1) to a nuanced story and thoughtful story with a relationship that is not traditional, i am all about that. i hope that the people in 5) do not stop anyone from writing nuanced, not super labeled romance ( 1) is our ally here!). i certainly HOPE that the perspective is not that M and L "caved" or "are 5s)" or "are queerbaiting," though I'm sure people have that opinion. this thread resonated with me on this.
but like ... something about me is that i don't like labeling stuff. i label myself for the convenience of other people, but i don't ascribe much of my personal identity to those labels and honestly have not found a single sexuality label made me go "THIS. this is me." i fit into different boxes at different times. for ease of convenience i say i am one thing because i guess one thing's really no better or no worse than the other and it's easier to just go with that's there - easier to go with what's easiest, etc -- but in the interest of honesty i feel more attached to the label "yankees fan" than i feel like ANY sexuality flag. (i wonder if this is an age thing. or maybe an internet thing.)
i'm like this with relationships as well. i'm not particullarly interested in labelling the connections i make with people - and furthermore one word isn't really better than the other! the value or importance of a relationship have not ascribed it one thing or another does not make it better or worse, or one thing or the other. a romance isn't an "upgrade" or a "downgrade" from a friendship. "upgrading" to romance does so much disservice to how powerful friendships can be AND how chill romance can be - not to mention how much EITHER one of these crumbling can be harmful and destructive. you're not ENDING your connection with someone by deciding to not be romantic with them right now, you're just changing what your connections look like. something happened and you're a different person and things are different. but you care DEEPLY about some other person; you want to make sure you stay connected and associated with them.
so yes, i wanted SG canon to be a thing (3), but like if they hadn't provided 1), or had said they were just friends, or it didn't FEEL romantic -- GUESS WHAT... your boys spending years together, going on archeological digs, deciding how they want to connect at any particular time ... THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT'S MEANINGFUL. if matt and liam had constructed this deep and intense relationship and then said "also they don't fuck," that's... totally fine?
so anyway, what i'm bringing into the canon (2), is that what matters is these deep and intimate actions. and everything about those actions, that connection, the framework of a relationship - if i was caleb or essek i probably wouldn't label this relationship anything because labels just kind of aren't my thing. but i think if i saw this on someone else - i would probably call those things "romantic" because labels are convenient. and maybe if someone asked me what i was doing in a relationship where i was caleb or essek, i might say it was romantic, but maybe i wouldn't because i... don't care what you think about my relationship and i don't want to share the details with you.
but exciting news! but it's fine if you don't bring that 'labels are mostly for the convenience if other people' vibe to the text and don't leave with that answer (2)! but i hope that what you bring to the text helps you see in the text what you want to see (3).
this is the part where i ran out of gas. but i wanted to add one more summary thing because i feel like if anyone reads this they will have one obvious question and i just want to head it off.
representation matters i guess. but like they don't have to say "I'M GAY AND LOVE YOU" to be gay. that's how representation works! i feel MORE represented by this ambiguity then i do for relationship of ANY sexuality or ANY gender! how's that, eh.
anyway there was more here about representation and how like, fuck, relationships LOOK DIFFERENT and they should be able to.. but i ran out of gas.
also something something about obviously matt and liam have SO much more context and understanding about what they were doing and they were obviously on the same page ... how much are they "obligated" to be on the same page with us? can they even DO that in the moment?
i'm not even going to tag this in hopes i forget i posted it.
here are some unequivocal statements i would like to make.
1. sometimes the creators of some canon will tweet something about the canon in a more explicit form than what appears in the text.
2. everyone BRINGS something different to the source canon. depending on that, everyone takes something different out of it. you get to change your mind on what you take out of the canon at any time. like me for example.
3. everyone WANTS something from the source canon, and that can tinge your perception of the source canon. "shipper goggles."
3. no one is wrong re: 2). even if the thing you took from the canon does not match 1) you are still not wrong. it's a work of fiction and you get to read it, interrogate it, and leave with whatever you got. the text is so much more important than 1).
4. does it feel GOOD to be verified by 1)? oh, heck yes. does this mean people verified by 1) are somehow "better" or "right" or "more valuable" than people rejected by 1)? No.
5. Do you get to use the absence of 1) to push some shitty agenda? fucking definitely not.
6. i should also state that it was EXTREMELY obvious to me that matt and liam's epilogue for essek and caleb was romantic. what i took from their canon discussion of it (see 2) was no way these two were not deeply connected and romantically engaged. i was BAFFLED that people were not taking romance from that epilogue.
now let's get down to discourse brass tacks.
because of 6), i was stunned that there was disappointment or that people weren't happy with this ending. i was staring at tweets in bafflement. i had NO idea why people were disappointed? they thought THIS wasn't shadowgast canon?
someone did tell me "shitty anti-gay people were being like THEY'RE NOT GAY and you're a f---" or whatever, which falls under 5). Fuck you guys. if what needs to be done to tell those people to fuck right the fuck off is add in 1) to a nuanced story and thoughtful story with a relationship that is not traditional, i am all about that. i hope that the people in 5) do not stop anyone from writing nuanced, not super labeled romance ( 1) is our ally here!). i certainly HOPE that the perspective is not that M and L "caved" or "are 5s)" or "are queerbaiting," though I'm sure people have that opinion. this thread resonated with me on this.
but like ... something about me is that i don't like labeling stuff. i label myself for the convenience of other people, but i don't ascribe much of my personal identity to those labels and honestly have not found a single sexuality label made me go "THIS. this is me." i fit into different boxes at different times. for ease of convenience i say i am one thing because i guess one thing's really no better or no worse than the other and it's easier to just go with that's there - easier to go with what's easiest, etc -- but in the interest of honesty i feel more attached to the label "yankees fan" than i feel like ANY sexuality flag. (i wonder if this is an age thing. or maybe an internet thing.)
i'm like this with relationships as well. i'm not particullarly interested in labelling the connections i make with people - and furthermore one word isn't really better than the other! the value or importance of a relationship have not ascribed it one thing or another does not make it better or worse, or one thing or the other. a romance isn't an "upgrade" or a "downgrade" from a friendship. "upgrading" to romance does so much disservice to how powerful friendships can be AND how chill romance can be - not to mention how much EITHER one of these crumbling can be harmful and destructive. you're not ENDING your connection with someone by deciding to not be romantic with them right now, you're just changing what your connections look like. something happened and you're a different person and things are different. but you care DEEPLY about some other person; you want to make sure you stay connected and associated with them.
so yes, i wanted SG canon to be a thing (3), but like if they hadn't provided 1), or had said they were just friends, or it didn't FEEL romantic -- GUESS WHAT... your boys spending years together, going on archeological digs, deciding how they want to connect at any particular time ... THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT'S MEANINGFUL. if matt and liam had constructed this deep and intense relationship and then said "also they don't fuck," that's... totally fine?
so anyway, what i'm bringing into the canon (2), is that what matters is these deep and intimate actions. and everything about those actions, that connection, the framework of a relationship - if i was caleb or essek i probably wouldn't label this relationship anything because labels just kind of aren't my thing. but i think if i saw this on someone else - i would probably call those things "romantic" because labels are convenient. and maybe if someone asked me what i was doing in a relationship where i was caleb or essek, i might say it was romantic, but maybe i wouldn't because i... don't care what you think about my relationship and i don't want to share the details with you.
but exciting news! but it's fine if you don't bring that 'labels are mostly for the convenience if other people' vibe to the text and don't leave with that answer (2)! but i hope that what you bring to the text helps you see in the text what you want to see (3).
this is the part where i ran out of gas. but i wanted to add one more summary thing because i feel like if anyone reads this they will have one obvious question and i just want to head it off.
representation matters i guess. but like they don't have to say "I'M GAY AND LOVE YOU" to be gay. that's how representation works! i feel MORE represented by this ambiguity then i do for relationship of ANY sexuality or ANY gender! how's that, eh.
anyway there was more here about representation and how like, fuck, relationships LOOK DIFFERENT and they should be able to.. but i ran out of gas.
also something something about obviously matt and liam have SO much more context and understanding about what they were doing and they were obviously on the same page ... how much are they "obligated" to be on the same page with us? can they even DO that in the moment?
i'm not even going to tag this in hopes i forget i posted it.